What is the project status?

Hi,

I'd like to ask about the project status, needs, development, etc. I've lost contact with the project a few months or years ago, can't really find when I last collaborated with it.

I would like to update the Portuguese translation, maybe give some help with coding, but I can find little info on how the project is moving, who's working on what, can't even find any info if the last patches I sent to the mailing list was received/used or not.

The forum seems to have a few users posting but as far as I can see, not much activity from the developers.

How can I get in touch with the project's members?

Regards,

Sérgio Lopes

I would like to add another question to the lot: where is the most stable and up to date code?

SVN tells me trunk is 7 months old, if I want to use the current development version where can I find it?

Nightly build available here:
http://projectpier.sf.net/nightlies/projectpier-nightly.tar.gz

Project seems quite stagnant, which is a shame since the codebase is quite solid.

You can get the location of the latest development repository here:
http://www.projectpier.org/node/387

You are correct it has been a long time since anything has been committed to the repo. I have made most of the commits in the past but am quite busy with other things at the moment.

There is a list of things that were planned for release 0.8.5 along with the status of each item. This is essentially a list of things to be worked on.

http://www.projectpier.org/roadmap/0.8.5

There is also a discussion forum dedicated to 0.8.5 beta which may have issues that need to be addressed:

http://www.projectpier.org/forum/development/beta

There is also a whole list of other problems that need to be addressed in the issue queue:

http://www.projectpier.org/project/issues

You are welcome to jump in and contribute anywhere you like, your help is most appreciated.

Does this forum/thread system have any notification feature so that I can receive e-mails when replies are made?

To the topic, the code for 0.8.5 is the trunk? Can I just start working on it or are the tags used for development? I'm asking because there is no branch for the 0.8.5 release and there is already a tag for it.

I've already checked out the source from trunk and I'll be studying it so that I can pick the issues in the tracker.

Is the listing in the roadmap up to date? There are some comments on some validation needed an such, are they correct?

I could also help with some documentation, one or two pages I have already crossed are not updated or have incorrect information, such as node/387, these are things easy to do when one has a few minutes to spare.

Last comment, I don't think write SVN access is available right now or is it?

Work is done in trunk, tags are used for releases only (including beta) there are no branches being used. You are correct that there is no write access to the repository. Changes should be submitted as patches (see http://www.projectpier.org/patch). Patches need to be well tested before being considered for SVN commit. The problem is most patches are uploaded to the web site, either nobody tests them or somebody tests them and finds bugs that are never followed up on and fixed. There are a few exceptions.

The tag marked 0.8.5.0_BETA1 is the 0.8.5 beta that was made available on the web site a couple months ago. Generally, a release is tagged when it is made available for public download. No work takes place in tags unless there was a small error to correct or some files needed changed for documenting the tagged release (like changing version numbers in the code).

Hope this helps.
Jon

If there are no branches, how does one correct bugs in release versions? If I want to correct a small bug on 0.8.5, thus creating 0.8.6, I have to do it in trunk? Not to bash on the way you have worked until now but it doesn't seem a correct approach.

As for svn access, off course I understand that write access should be restricted and patches or some other form should be used to send changes but clearly, the patch system doesn't seem to be working. At least it needs more attention.

Consider the patches that are too old to properly work directly in trunk, given that there is no branch for the release to which the patch was created, on can only try to apply the patch against a tag. Then, either the programmer drops all changes and can't use SVN or he has to change the tag, and that I think is wrong. If, on the other hand, the programmer tries to apply the patch to trunk, most likely the patch will fail, and a once valid patch is dropped. The programmer can manually try to apply the changes but it's almost like developing again.

Given the above scenario I feel reluctant to give any patch to the project as I expect it to be forgotten amidst all the others or that it will add burden to the existing team, clearly there seems to be a lack of man power to advance the patches up the development cycle.

I don't want to pass judgment or in other way disregard the effort given by everyone but 7 months without a commit, patches floating around in the forums and in the issue tracker for months to years, it breaks the spirit of any how want to help.

Mailing list is quiet, this forum is almost void of developers... Your thoughts are most welcome.

You might want to bring your issues up on the developers mailing list. I doubt whether the right people are reading the forums.

I've already sent a message to the devs list, with the questions I posted here and a link to this forum discussion, I have yet to get any response. As no one responds in the list, I can't even figure out if they are reading my messages.

And I can't believe the right people are not reading the forums, what are they here for?

I subscribe to the developers list and I haven't seen your message, so I assume the other subscribers haven't seen it either. You may want to confirm you are subscribed, I'm not sure how but check the sourceforge web site.

I feared that was the problem, I am subscribed to the list, at least that's what the list management software indicates. My messages are sent without any notice of being held for moderation, so from my view all e-mails are sent, somewhere along the path from my mail client to the list's address the messages are being lost.

I'll check the list's management system and try to find out what's happening.

If you could, send the link to this discussion to the list.

Knitter,
Have you considered starting your own fork? I know this is a drastic step, but I think this site is holding things back. Not so much because it's not being worked on but because it's almost impossible to find actually how to contribute. Key links could just be listed on the home page but seem to float around these forums. It seems stagnated to such a degree that effectively the project seems to have come to a standstill. This is not to say the team are not working hard and put in some amazing contributions but it seems that the whole benefit of open source are lost in the way everything is organized. Ironic given this is collaboration software!

I have to maintain and improve an install of Project Pier and was hoping to find active development (shame on me for not looking more closely at the site when choosing PP). Unfortunately it doesn't seem the case and I'm guessing it's not about to come back to life anytime soon. Has anyone done forks of PP already or are some still looking to do so? I'm of a mind to fork it and put it on github, and then be fairly laissez faire about the development (I'll have to do some changes/features myself to the system, no reason others shouldn't benefit - and hopefully other people would have something to contribute as well).

Why not make some proposals about how to reorganize the site? Are you familiar with Drupal (which runs this site)? You are welcome to circulate your ideas among the community, do some mockup screens, etc. The site can be changed, it's just a matter of doing it. I'd love to see your mockups and specific ideas for changes.

-Jon

I have been talking to Ryan. Looks like we are picking things back beginning from mid coming week. Hold on.

We saw "mid coming week" come and go, no news. I'll be forking the project and moving it up on github. Feel free to use any relevant patches from the fork for this project.

Regards
Peter

The only thing Ryan did last week was to link with me on Linkedin. But no details on how to move forward. I understand your move.

So, how do we manage things from here?

I'll open a project on GitHub. Anyone currently interested in developing is welcome to help out. We can settle on processes depending on how many people are interested.

I'd personally focus on developing wanted features/clearing annoying bugs. This place has nice docs and I have personally no interest in trying to recreate that.

Why fork ProjectPier? The only thing missing here is leadership. The hardest thing about getting a fork going is getting people to know about it. PP.org already has the web traffic and community and you'll have a hard time rebuilding that. All the tools you need to lead this project are right here on projectpier.org. I started ProjectPier and I handed it over to Ryan after the first release (which I did 90% by myself). Initially there was still momentum from the initial release, but then there was no development leadership and it died. Patches were being submitted, but nobody was testing and committing them. After a while I stepped in and produce the 0.8.5 beta, but unfortunately I believe it needs a lot more work and have not got the time to finish it. If you are willing to make the commitment to lead the project or at least lead the development efforts for the foreseeable future then there is no reason why you shouldn't. Beware, it takes hours, and hours, and hours to keep an open source project going - and I don't mean writing code, just keeping the communication dialog going can be intense.

What resources do you need that you don't have, aside from the keys to the repository on sourceforge? Take the repository to github and we'll go from there. PP.org can still be used to coordinate development efforts and publish release, and if there is true development progress, use the blog to tell the world about it. I can give you the access you need to do that.

-Jon

Well Jon, I expressed that willingness to Ryan. Ryan explained he was swamped with work. Understandable, but the project seems to be held hostage now.

I understand the hours needed for communication (I do this for a living). This was my last message to Ryan where the only response was an invitation on LinkedIn.
---
Hi Ryan,

1.5 weeks have passed ;-) I am an ICT project manager for a living so
I keep track. Note: You can find me on Linked in.

How about giving me rights to update the web site and the forum?
Despite the captcha I see a number of bogus forum posts coming in.

What is the plan forward with the code? You talked about pushing a lot
of new code to the repository.

Why don't we draw up a list of things we want in 0.9 and declare that
the new target? No 0.8.5 final :)

I would like to see support for LDAP authentication, reply via email,
video playing, bulk upload of documents, retaining the original file
names, configurations at user and project level, upload via email,
conversion of documents from file system to database and vice versa,
prevent deleting files (only hide them), use of roles and permissions,
hide modules (like Forms, Tags etc.), basic installation, language
selection on login, being able to work without GD, being able to work
without InnoDB (i.e. making clear what the risks are), being able to
run without SimpleXML, downloading tables as Excel, a session time out
time on every page, a login history including ip adresses, secure
method for changing important data (e.g. password needs verification
via email), file preview functions, better debug support (especially
installing).

And a killer feature, one that is not available in other comparable products.

Cheers,

I have no inherent need to fork the project - I'd rather see it continue as PP, seeing as that has interest from people, a name, a site and documentation. I just didn't think it possible to move the project forwards without either the current leader opening up or forking the project.

If you guys think moving the code to github and allowing for a more open dev process is a possibility (while still keeping everything as PP) I'd say let's go for it. I'll have some time to put in development but not enough to get bogged down by communication - if you feel like taking that on, PHPFreak, then how about some cooperation?

Regards
Peter

I have no reservations on working together to make this a killer app ;-)

I will PM you.

Just a quick update.

Jon, Peter and me have started. We are now in the process of getting more people on board and preparing the to-do list for the release.

Exciting news! So are you taking on the duties of running the existing project or did you decide to fork it?

Peter and I forked it. However, we differ too much on design ideas and decided to each do our thing. Next to that Peter started on a new job last week so that takes all of his attention. I will be working together with Jon, Stephen and Andrew on a new version. The progress can be monitored in the issue tracker, at GitHub http://github.com/phpfreak/Project-Pier and at the development environment at http://pp086dev.phalanx.nl

You provided a dev env URL. Is there a username/password combo we can use to get a sneak peak at what you guys are doing?

Do you guys need any help in the design department? I would love to help

www.andrewdotson.com

Alpha revision 2 is available for inspection :-)

http://www.phalanx.nl/pp086-alpha-rev-2

alpha/alpha to login.