Project Pier strategy for 2008?
I found out about Project Pier by accident (browsing through ExpressionEngine forums to find a project management component).
The project shows promise, but from my own observations it lacks:
- Awareness; most posts are weeks and months old.
- Core team; developers, designers and marketeers are nearly non-existant.
- Clear mission; there is no definition of where the project is going, what is needed to get it there and how it is going to happen.
I would like to see if I can assist in small ways, namely:
- Helping with the go-to-market strategy; going to MySQL way (backend) or the SugarCRM way (application).
- Structuring a manpower framework; give people roles they can fit themselves into instead of giving them areas of need to figure out where they go to.
- Crafting the message; tell the world about the project, and on how they can use it, be it seamless integration into their CMS or intranet, or as-is as a AC replacement.
This is just my own views, would appreciate some feedback.
Hi,
Thanks for the vote of confidence. It would be great to get more feedback on your ideas. Perhaps you can discuss them on the development mailing list or come chat with us on IRC. Some of your points may be valid, but I also think as you get involved with the community you might feel differently.
We can always use more/better marketing so, welcome aboard!
Good day Ryan,
Thank you for the response. My immediate suggestion would be to centralize all communications onto one medium. Either IRC, Forum, Mailing List, not all three. Central lesson here is that we aim to show the world that SOMETHING is happening; IRC is realtime, so no logs to be seen, Forum is best, as is Wiki, Mailing list is good, but displays badly on web (unless you can get a Yahoo Group-like functionality and usability). Certainly that would create a hell of a noise:signal ratio, but at least there is visible signs of life and that is what attracts users and volunteers.
Honestly I doubt I can spare much time within the PP community as I am kept pretty busy with my day job, my startups and other volunteer commitments but I see PP as a gem in the rough, and I would be more than glad to help structure in some business sense and systems to make things a little better as-and-when I can.
The project shows promise, but from my own observations it lacks:
- Awareness; most posts are weeks and months old.
- Core team; developers, designers and marketeers are nearly non-existant.
- Clear mission; there is no definition of where the project is going, what is needed to get it there and how it is going to happen.
I personally think you've hit the nail on the head.
To me the project is a bit hazey at the moment - Things are getting done, but there's not much interaction with the 'public' as it were, as it seems that quite a lot of discussion happens in either IRC, or the issue tracker (which on a side note is actually hidden from view unless you're logged in, and even then it's quite hard to find unless you have the contributor links enabled).
The 'official' part of the website seems to have stalled a while ago (granted we all have our own problems / things to do at the moment, but even little things like adding a new blog post saying that we weren't accepted into the GSOC).
I've always been under impression that there should be 'teams' / areas of responsibility for any project (granted, I haven't been doing my part in the doc section), but that might be because the only projects I've seen have been group lead ones (phpBB, Joomla, Activecollab, smf etc.).
I would like to see if I can assist in small ways, namely:
- Helping with the go-to-market strategy; going to MySQL way (backend) or the SugarCRM way (application).
Can you explain this concept for me please?
I'm unfamiliar with both of their strategies.
- Structuring a manpower framework; give people roles they can fit themselves into instead of giving them areas of need to figure out where they go to.
I really like this idea :)
- Crafting the message; tell the world about the project, and on how they can use it, be it seamless integration into their CMS or intranet, or as-is as a AC replacement.
There's no such thing as bad publicity :p
Currently there is no integration with other products, but then again, when EE 2.0 is released it might be interesting to see if it's possible to make a bridge.
Thanks for taking the time to come over help :)
Good day Alex,
Thank you for your detailed response, as mentioned above, a quick solution to "showing that we are alive" is to centralize all communications into one medium. Messy as it is, it is better than telling on the forums "go check in the mailing lists" or in the lists "Alex is talking on IRC on that matter" or in IRC that "oh crap, I don't have the chat logs of the previous meeting".
Once that is in place, building small task forces such as "Advocates", "Documentation", "API" that co-relates to the official roadmap (if not done yet, then the assembly of the existing core to work on it together is even more important) can be then planned and rolled out.
On the "go-to market", I was meaning would PP be focusing on being a user-visible application such as SugarCRM or perhaps having an "engine"like approach (which is used, but not seen) such as MySQL which is the core that powers Drupal, Joomla! but is not seen. Why I am suggesting this is because there are so many user-visible applications such as dotproject and so on, but none have actually chose to become an engine (another example is jQuery) which can be deployed into literally ANY PHP based system, be it Joomla!, EE, Drupal, etc. This could and might just work in my opinion.
If a "state of the team" meeting can be done up, then a simple organization and job chart can be put up, along with the roadmap, so that potential volunteers can see where they can slot themselves into and start working on the problems and issues listed. Sounds simple but can go a long way in mobilizing this project.
Well true in a sense about publicity, but it's always good to have good publicity. I'll leave you guys to review my suggestions and I will see what I can help on further when I get your responses.
I am new here but I have to agree. ProjectPier is about the best solution that I have found open source. As a designer I was able to make major modifications to the default template in about 30 minutes which was key for me. I wanted to be able to customize the look and feel to our website. I spend a lot of time in the Joomla community as well as Expression Engine but from the Joomla team they have a core team as described in the OP. I might be interested in helping in design or marketing if needed.
Marcus Neto
Creative Director
Blue Fish Design Studio
http://www.bluefishdesignstudio.com
Good day Marcus,
Well met, that makes 2 of us here. Problem here is the core team appears to be not particularly interested in doing anything in marketing as it is rather quiet now.
I would say in structuring a proper core team, Joomla! gives a relatively good framework but in making an all-inclusive community, they are not a good example to learn from. Expression Engine has a good community that believes in the product; I believe their working model can and should be emulated.
I would certainly be glad to work with you on PP in structuring up the high level strategy if the existing team is good with it.
Hey Nick,
I'm still interested in putting some stuff together, but nominating a team structure doesn't particularly help us without enough people able to fill those positions.
I think it would be ideal to move this conversation to the mailing list where the message will get some more exposure to the developers. I would also encourage you to come have a chat on IRC - you can try http://projectpier.org/live-support if you're unfamiliar with that.
Good day Ryan,
I beg to differ. Setting in place an organizational structure is the first step in knowing where you are going by pre-planning your requirements; that is why business and marketing plans lay down such facts "on the table" to chart the direction, not wing it out.
At this moment I will keep posting on the forums; as mentioned there are too many channels of communication here on PP, resulting in silence in the visible public face (forums). With more activity here in the forums, more people will step up to the plate; you can see the 3rd new volunteer offering to do up the logo in a post shortly before mine.
The more the core team persist in operating "technically", the less progress it is going to make. My assistance offered is geared towards marketing and communicating to the public, and if my expertise is respected, as the technical team's expertise in development is respected, I would say please then allow each one's strengths to shine.
PS. I do not have time to chat on IRC; that is why I post on forums only when I am able to cut out time from my work as it is just a few minutes vs having to keep being engaged in conversation which takes me away from my work. Sorry about that.
I never IRC. Not bent that way. Don't have time for that. But I believe in what you are doing. I feel the need to encourage you. I was looking at basecamp when someone sent your link my way. Why would anyone pay their prices when I can have all of the functionality of Basecamp hosted on my own servers with complete customization capabilities... keep up the good work on the technical aspect.
But I do have to side with Nicholas on this one. Conversations in the forum are easier for most as they allow us to post when we can. And it leaves it there for the world to see so if they want to jump into the fray they can.
And in regards to definition of teams it is true that there may not be people to fill the positions at first but your product rocks. And I would think that people would want to help out if they knew where. Of course there are always takers.... but anyway...
If I was to outline a moving forward plan at a high level it would be (in no particular order):
1. Define areas of responsibility and team structure
2. Have everyone define a mode of communcication and stick with it.
3. Look at developing some more good looking themes for the project. One of the things that has made Joomla jump in users is the availability of good looking templates for cheap. (mental note to self... check licensing here and possible business opportunity)
4. Develop some top notch tutorials for newbies looking to modify the look and feel of their project. Perhaps even video tutorials depending on your hosting costs (not looking to sink you with bandwidth charges).
4. Possibly link up with another product (EE seems good as it is geared towards web designers and they need your product and the features it supports)
5. Possibly rebrand this site and see about getting showcased on CSS Remix or others.
The points to hit home with people besides the features that you already showcase are the brandability of the projectpier product for my use and the ability to host it on my own machine (or even locally on my Mac if I want)
Anyway, you can tell us to bugger off if you want. You may be completely happy with where its at. If not then lets continue the discussion...
Marcus Neto
Creative Director
Blue Fish Design Studio
http://www.bluefishdesignstudio.com
On my end, running a graphic design studio, I would like to contribute a logo to the project.
As I have not seen any reply nor comment on this thread for nearly a week, my take is the core team behind PP is not interested in improving their marketing and long term planning.
Therefore, I will no longer be monitoring this project nor offering to volunteer; I wish you all the best.
I'm sorry that noone's replied to your thread recently - I have discussed it a few times with some people in IRC.
I intended (several times in fact) to reply but have either been side tracked by coursework, or have been unable to think of anything else to add to the topic.
At the moment I'm pretty sure that a dev team will be created soon, however this seems to be a gradual process (and being in different time zones doesn't help at all).
If you really are going to leave this community, then I would like to thank you for your input and guidance, and wish you luck in anything you choose to do after this.
I ain't going anywhere so if you all still want some help then give me a shout. I would love to help out as time permits. But I honestly don't even have an IRC client installed as no one I know really uses it. I do use skype however so if you would like to talk via skype I would love to bat some ideas around with you....
skype = marcus.neto
Marcus Neto
Creative Director
Blue Fish Design Studio
http://www.bluefishdesignstudio.com
Hey Marcus,
Thanks for your offer, of course we'd like your help.
IRC is a fairly common means of communication in open source projects. Until you install an IRC client, you can use the web interface I setup at http://projectpier.org/live-support
I would need some time but I would be willing to do a redesign of the project pier website.
I checked the IRC and it did not seem like anyone was there. I will check in some other time too. Anyway, let me know if you are interested. We could leverage a redesign with the CSS Galleries and get project pier a little publicity...
Marcus Neto
Creative Director
Blue Fish Design Studio
http://www.bluefishdesignstudio.com
Marcus,
Are you still working on this?
Have you made any progress in getting a blessing from the developers on restructuring the look and feel of the site and other marketing aspects.
I would be interested in helping out.
I have been looking at the development/api for a while to help contribute to the project pier development, but I would not mind putting that on hold to help out on the presentation side of the project.
A few thoughts that come to mind are
-themes gallery
-patches list
-plugins area when they enable this in pp.
-possibly a cook book type section on how to add features like lightbox.
Hey Guys,
I've actually been trying to get a web redesign going for awhile. I've got about half of a spec/design doc written and just need to finish it before sending it out. I've had a few offers and would like to see what everyone comes up with. This has mostly been via direct email to avoid confusions or any hurt feelings.
As for your thoughts:
-themes - http://projectpier.org/project/Themes
most if not all themes should have screenshots there.
-patches list - http://projectpier.org/project/issues/projectpier
this can be easily filtered by the status of the patches. Note that patches are a development tool and should not be looked at as plugins for the system. That's why we want to build a plugin system :)
-plugins - this will eventually reside at http://projectpier.org/project/Plugins or something similar, which follows the convention of themes and translations.
-We can easily add more documentation - I have setup minor permissions on the handbooks to avoid vandalism/spam but this is easy to add you to the doc team which has elevated privileges to moderate changes. If you come up with a selection/collection of cookbook entries, then I will add a new book to cover just that need.